Article by Sam Winebaum and Sally Reiley
Saucony Endorphin Trainer ($180)
Introduction
Pros and Cons
Pros:
Well named! Speedier (Endorphin) Daily Training (Trainer) ride: state of the art high energy TPEE IncrediRun foam, ¾ carbon plate, steady stable PWRRUN below: Sam
Highly cushioned 42/34 stack height yet also reasonable 10.15 oz / 288g US9 weight and $180 pricing: Sam/Sally
High volume feet, especially at midfoot will be happy here: Sam/Sally
Cons:
Voluminous upper especially at midfoot and at the heel collars could use more structure as Kinvara Pro had: Sam/Sally
Upper may challenge lower volume feet. Unusual for me at true to size I had to use a lace lock: Sam/Sally
Dullish lower midsole: instead of older PWRRUN Saucony might not have used supercritical PWRRUN Pb for the lower layer: a more energetic and lighter foam:Sam/Sally
Not particularly pleasant at slow paces: heel feel while not over broad is a bit lumpy and back weighted and over soft on initial touch down through the IncrediRun foam: Sam/Sally (not pleasant at all but fastest paces for Sally)
Related: lighter weight runners may have issues getting enough compression below the plate at the PWRRUN layer Sam (lightweight Sally struggled with this shoe!)
Most comparable shoes
Brooks Hyperion Max 2
Hoka Mach X 2
Hoka Skyward X
ASICS Max Speed 4
Nike Zoom Fly 6
Mizuno Neo Vista
Stats
Approx. Weight: men's 10.15 oz / 288g US9
Prior Version Weight: men’s 10.15 oz / 288g
Sample Weight: men’s 9.9 oz / 280g US8.5
women’s 8.8 oz / 250 g (US W8)
Stack Height: men’s 42 mm heel / 34 mm forefoot (8 mm drop)
Platform Width: 90mm heel / 70mm midfoot / 110mm forefoot
First Impressions, Fit and Upper
The upper is a soft unstructured engineered mesh.
Some support is provided by an array of printed rubbery dots through the midfoot and towards the rear of the shoe as well as a lightly padded gusset tongue.
The toe box is broad and unstructured with a moderately stiff and high toe bumper. You can see some extra material slightly folded in the picture above indicating how much volume there is
There is clearly more volume overall than in the Kinvara Pro where the printed overlays at midfoot were lines and extended over the toe box.
When combined with the soft and lightly padded collars and very soft IncrediRun foam initial landings, unusually for me, I had to resort to a lace lock to get a good rear hold which was less so about any slipping and more about drawing the collars in securely,
The Kinvara Pro had a fairly substantial black suede overlay tying lacing to the rear of the shoe which is missing here and for my narrower to medium volume feet is missed.
I also note a stitched on medial overlay to help provide a bit more support. It is needed and fairly effective but seems like it was a last minute addition.
Bottom Line: For sure a comfort focused upper here. Hold overall could be improved especially for those with lower volume feet and for faster paced runs with more structure. I might size down half a size in a next pair. Those with higher volume feet should be pleased at true to usual size.
Sally: I have always said that I have yet to meet a Saucony shoe that I did not like; shoe after shoe has worked well for me, from daily trainer to race shoe. Almost all have fit my foot well and have been super comfortable and perform nicely.
I heard that this new Endorphin Trainer was to replace the Kinvara Pro as the “supertrainer” in the Saucony lineup. I am personally a HUGE fan of the Endorphin Speed, which I consider to be a supertrainer and a very good one at that (chosen as my Shoe of the Year on several different occasions).Why the need for another supertrainer?
Okay, so this new Trainer contains a layer of the new Incredirun foam. I have recently reviewed the upcoming Endorphin Elite 2 (RTR Review), a revamped Race Day blow-your-mind shoe that features a thick slab of Incredirun. If this new foam can do anything at all in this Trainer, it just might be fantastic. That must be the justification for the new shoe.
I struggled with the upper fit right away. The good news is that my toes were no where near the end of the toe box so I did not need to fear losing toenails after long runs (some Endorphins ran short for me); the bad news is that my entire forefoot seems to be swimming in this shoe regardless of how snug I try to get the laces. I have a relatively narrow womens foot that typically fits easily in a Saucony, but this upper runs overly wide and spacious. It even looks huge on my foot. The lacing system is slightly unique and holds well, but just can’t pull the shoe tight enough around my forefoot and midfoot.
Heel lift was also a problem and like Sam I had to play around with runners knots to try to improve the heel hold. There is plenty of cushioning to make this a comfortable shoe, at least when I am not running.
And one must agree that this is an attractive shoe with the yellow/orange Incredirun foam sandwiched between the all white !
Midsole & Platform
Sam: Following the same formula as its predecessor the Kinvara Pro, we have a top layer of supercritical foam, a ¾ length carbon plate, and a lower layer of PWRRUN EVA blend.
The difference here is that, instead of the older PWRRUN Pb, an expanded bead PEBA, the top layer is Saucony’ newest race foam, IncrediRun. This TPEE foam is super soft on the way down and very energetic and quick on the way back up.
We first, and only recently, experienced IncrediRUN in the Endorphin Elite 2 (RTR Review) marathon racer and the ride feel is incredible with a seemingly impossibly soft and pleasant foam returning quickly and decisively.
More vertical sidewalls on the medial side than lateral for more support on that side
Lateral Side is more carved out to accentuate roll off the midfoot and is felt as such
Below the ¾ length carbon plate we have Saucony classic PWRRUN foam which is dense and firm. I compared the pressing feel to a Peregrine 13 PWRRUN and it is the same dense firmness.
Given there is no outsole to speak of, and the IncrediRUN above is so soft, the overall feel towards the ground is in no way too firm having plenty of shock absorption and stability but of a muted variety, For sure the midsole is more dynamic, friendlier riding and with a more noted rolling sensation than the Kinvara Pro.
And further noting about that improved rolling sensation we have a slot cut through to the plate on the lateral side which for sure helps with the roll.
Bottom line: The midsole delivers a well protected training ride suitable for most all runs except speed work (mainly due to the upper and weight). The IncrediRun layer adds some magic making itself felt, adding some dynamic feel and accentuating the rolling sensation as the foot sinks forward to toe off although the plate is never felt as harsh in the mix. Given it is softer and less dense, it also has a touch of flex to the platform which the Kinvara Pro did not have.
Sally: One can definitely feel the softness of the IncrediRun layer underfoot, but I do not feel the usual Speedroll Geometry of a Saucony Endorphin. I only feel a clunky blocky harsh ride that is very heel dominant (and I am not a heel striker).
According to Saucony’s marketing, this new shoe is “crafted for effortless speed, turning everyday runs into personal bests” Well, I found it took more effort than merited to even get these shoes to hit a marginal pace, so my training runs were discouraging and not much fun. I could not get the shoes to roll forward. Sam theorizes that perhaps my light weight (105 pounds) is not sufficient to get the foams to work together for me? I do think that the shoe is “breaking in” a bit after several runs, but I simply don't want to lace them up again if I don’t have to.
Outsole
Sam: The “outsole” is largely an outsole grade PWRRUN midsole foam, as for example the KInvara has had for years.
Unlike the Kinvara Pro whose outsole was all foam, here we have two strategically placed rubber patches at key wear areas. These patches, in addition to durable wear surfaces, also clearly added more at the ground response for me than the Kinvara Pro had, a good thing.
Given the depth of “outsole” and the tendency for shoes to initially wear, then settle, I think durability will be good. Given the light rubber coverage and even with the ¾ carbon plate there is a touch of stiff “flex” here.
Grip of the wavy foam patterns so far has been adequate on dry and wet pavement but I for sure would hesitate to take such an outsole for runs on snow.
Sally: There is not much rubber at all on the outsole, but just a small amount added for durability. But what is it about this outsole and the blocky geometry that makes this possibly the LOUDEST shoe out there?! It rivals the Clydesdale AlphaFly clomping, and that is bad. Even with headphones on, my footstrikes sound like a shoed horse trotting down a cobblestone road. Silence is golden in my book and I love a quiet shoe (doesn't every PT suggest you run softly?), but this is not it.
Grip was questionable on frozen snowpack, so I would not recommend this as a winter running shoe.
Ride, Conclusions and Recommendations
Sam: The Endorphin Trainer joins an increasingly crowded field of max plus plated trainers. Uniike full on plated race shoes, the Endorphin is not as rigid in feel, so is adaptable to slower training paces, has a stable forgiving underfoot platform and a comfort as opposed to performance focused upper.
The ride is pleasant and quite fast with the IncrediRun foam delivering for sure some excitement while making the ride flow smoother than the prior Kinvara Pro. I found the shoe most effective at my faster daily training paces which are between 9:10 per mile and 8:50 per mile.
The plate is effective in providing propulsion without being overly prescriptive in what is a max plus stack height shoe at 42/34. The weight at 10.15 oz /288g US9 is OK but not great compared to some of its competition (see Comparisons below) and the $180 price is reasonable.
I do wish that Saucony had swapped out the dense, on the heavy side and somewhat dull PWRRUN lower layer for a more reactive foam while at the same time keeping its stable feel and maybe also dropping the weight.
The upper leans too far towards “comfort” with a less than ideal secure hold for my lower volume feet. That said, higher volume feet should find it an improvement over the Kinvara Pro’s in room and overall comfort.
All in all, the Endorphin Trainer is a solid choice if you seek a carbon plated trainer that is versatile and comfortable, doesn’t force you to run a certain way or run in a narrow range of paces. My sense is that heavier runners who can compress the lower PWRRUN more than lighter ones will like the Trainer better than lighter weight runners.
On the excitement and fun front it almost gets there but could use a re-thinking of its lower PWRRUN layer with something more reactive and less dense.
If it fits you well it can clearly be an all around daily trainer something few shoes in its category can successfully pull off.
Sam’s Score: 9.1 /10
(-0.4 Deductions for upper hold, -0.5 for relatively dull and dated lower PWRRUN midsole layer)
😊😊😊 1/2
Sally: Ouch. My first negative review of a Saucony shoe. I can no longer say I have never met a Saucony shoe I did not like. My apologies, but hopefully I am an outlier in my inability to get along with the Endorphin Trainer. And just because it did not work for me does not mean other runners won't find it a good shoe for their running style and mechanics and needs! Sam runs in more different shoes than anyone I know, and he enjoys this shoe, so everyone is different.
The upper in my TTS was too spacious and loose for my foot and I was not able to get a secure hold, and the ride was nothing but clunky, blocky and miserable. I could not get this combination of great components (Incredirun, PWRRUN, ¾ carbon plate) to work for me, possibly due to my not weighing enough to compress the lower firm foam as needed for energy return. I was self-conscious of how LOUD my clomping footsteps were - how embarassing!
I am a huge fan of the Endorphin Speed 1 ,2, 3, and 4, and eagerly await the Speed 5. THAT will continue to be my pick for a Saucony supertrainer to run my daily miles in. The Endorphin line is fantastic, but sometimes there is a bad apple in a family. This was a bad apple in my experience, but hopefully not in everyone else’s. And Saucony, if you have not cut me off yet, please bring back the Endorphin Speed RunShield.
Sally’s (dismal) score: 6.75 / 10
Ride (50%): 6.5 Fit (30%): 7 Value (15%): 6 Style (5%): 10
😊😊
7 Comparisons
Saucony Kinvara Pro (RTR Review)
At about the same weight and same stack height, the Trainer substitutes IncrediRun for PWRRUN Pb and gets some rubber whereas the Pro had none.
The Trainer upper is considerably roomier and more easy going and I am not sure I like that for my narrower lower volume foot as I had to resort to a lace lock. I might even go a half size down from my true size (as I was in the Pro) here. Higher volume feet will be happy at true to size.
The ride is significantly improved in the Trainer, easier flowing and more dynamic because of the IncredRun foam and added rubber which adds to pop and response (and wear surface) to the rubberized foam outsole.
Saucony Ride 18 (RTR Review)
Sam: The $140 Ride delivers much of what the Trainer does in a simpler more streamlined and classic daily trainer package, It is lower stack at 35/27 with the same 8mm drop, weighs somewhat less than the Trainer at 9.7 oz /275g and features lively bouncy PWRRUN+ expanded TPU beads foam. It's upper is more secure for sure if lower volume (wides available unlike higher volume Trainer). No plates here but a full coverage outsole.
Brooks Hyperion Max 2 (RTR Review)
Sam: A more uptempo and lower stack take of a plated max cushion trainer, the Hyperion Max 2 has all supercritical DNA Flash foam and a plastic plate. It is more stable and is about an ounce, 28g lighter. Its upper is far more performance focused than the Trainer’s and is a better fit for me, The Trainer is more forgiving and easier going and for many will lean more daily all around training than the Hyperion which is a faster riding shoe.
Hoka Skyward X (RTR Review)
Sam: The Skyward X is higher stack yet at 48 mm heel / 43 mm forefoot ( 5mm drop spec) but only 15g heavier as unlike the Trainer it relies on two supercritical foams for its midsole: PEBA underfoot and supercritical EVA below. As with the Trainer it has a carbon plate.
Its roomy true to size upper is more supportive and its rear of platform more stable. While “heavier” feeling it has a more exciting max cushion ride than the Trainer in large part due to its lower supercritical foam midsole. It was my second place shoe of the year 2024. The catch…it is $225 so $45 more than the Trainer.
Sally: The Skyward X is a super versatile trainer that is fun to run in with its high stack max cushioned bouncy ride. The upper fit is roomy but secure, whereas for me the Trainer is overly roomy and not at all secure in its hold. The big contrast is the ride, fun vs laborious. In my opinion the $225 for a great shoe is worth it, whereas I wouldn't spend $80 let alone $180 for the Endorphin Trainer.
Mizuno Neo Vista (RTR Review)
Sam: The Neo Vista is slightly higher stack height and considerably lower weight at 9.2 oz / 261g US9 while priced the same as the Trainer. The Mizuno reverses the foams putting supercritical Enerzy NXT as the bottom layer and somewhat firmer Enerzy EVA blend above sandwiching a fiberglass instead of carbon fiber plate. The Neo Vista has a stretch knit upper and shares some of the hold issues of the Trainer for me. The Mizuno is clearly more reactive and faster feeling than the Saucony although somewhat less stable due to its softer foams at the ground. I think lighter runners may prefer the Mizuno over the Saucony as a more uptempo focused daily trainer while heavier runners will lean towards the more substantial lower foam layer of the Trainer.
Endorphin Speed (RTR Review)
Sally: I have loved all the versions of the Endorphin Speed from the start and have named it my shoe of the year several times. Version 4 is an awesome trainer for me as it fits well with more of a performance fit (albeit a tad short in the toe for longer runs so I would recommend sizing up half a size) and has the versatility of a tempo shoe or a long run shoe or a daily trainer or even a race day shoe for some. It is light and fast and peppy, and is my choice hands down over the Endorphin Trainer any day.
Sam: Clearly the more uptempo trainer in the Saucony line up, the lower stack lower weight Speed is for many a daily trainer with the more cushioned Trainer is the more mellow option in the Endorphin line up.
ASICS Magic Speed 4 (RTR Review)
Sam: My 2024 shoe of the year, the Magic Speed is almost 2 oz / 50g lighter with a near identical stack height (actually 1.5mm higher). It shares a top midsole layer of supercritical foam and a lower more conventional foam adding a far more substantial ASICSGrip rubber outsole. It gets to its weight with a somewhat narrower platform, particularly at the heel. Somewhat firmer, but still very well cushioned, it is a faster shoe for sure if not quite as easy going as the Trainer which leans, as named, more “trainer” than the more uptempo even race Magic ” Speed”. The ASICS upper is true to size for me, has less volume than the Trainer and has a near perfect performance fit for me.
Sally: I echo what Sam says here, preferring the excellent Magic Speed over the Trainer any day for the same reasons.
Nike Zoom Fly 6 (RTR Review)
Sally: The Zoom Fly 6 fits my narrow foot like a glove and the ride is fast and fun, clearly a great training companion to the AlphaFly. Racing thoroughbred vs a clomping Clydesdale for me. Honestly, this is not a fair comparison of the two shoes because my foot swims in the Endorphin Trainer and I can’t get it to work with my mechanics, whereas the ZoomFly 6 feels like a natural extension of my stride.
Sam: At the same stack height and considerably lighter at about 8.80 oz / 249g US9, the Nike shares a similar construction of supercritical Zoom X underfoot and an EVA blend below with a full length carbon plate between. Its Zoom X foam is for sure firmer than the Trainer’s IncrediRun while its lower layer is slightly softer. The Nike has a well lugged outsole which is actually surprising given its far lighter weight. Its upper is flawless in hold and fit for me and among other elements extends the gusset towards the rear of the shoe to lock in the lace up area to the heel, something the trainer does not do.
While the Zoom Fly has somewhat of a mid foot flex point the Saucony lacks there, overall it has a more aggressive (plate and drop more noticeable) up tempo feel and ride making it I think for most less of a “daily trainer” and more of a speed shoe than the Trainer.
The Endorphin Trainer will be available Spring 2025
Tester Profiles
Sam is the Editor and Founder of Road Trail Run. He is in his 60’s with 2024 Sam’s 52th year of running roads and trails. He has a decades old 2:28 marathon PR. These days he runs halves in the just sub 1:40 range if he gets very, very lucky. Sam trains 30-40 miles per week mostly at moderate paces on the roads and trails of New Hampshire and Utah be it on the run, hiking or on nordic skis. He is 5’9” tall and weighs about 160 lbs, if he is not enjoying too many fine New England IPA’s.
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